Behind The Curtain

Staging Diversity: A Conversation with Emilio Rodriguez

• Rosanita Ratcliff • Season 1 • Episode 1

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In this episode, Emilio Rodriguez, the co-founder and artistic director of Black and Brown Theater, discusses the origins of the theater company and its mission to promote inclusivity and diversity in the theatrical landscape. Emilio shares his experiences of facing segregation and typecasting in the theater industry and how it inspired him to create a platform for artists of color. He also talks about the Our Voices program, which allows students to write and direct their own plays, and the impact it has on their growth and development. Emilio emphasizes the importance of variety in programming and the need to challenge and engage audiences of all ages.

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Rosanita:

Welcome to episode one, staging diversity, a conversation with Emilio Rodriguez. Join us in our inaugural episode. As we sit down with Emilio Rodriguez, the co founder and artistic director of black and Brown theater. Discover how Emilio's vision and passion are reshaping the theatrical landscape, fostering inclusivity. And bringing diverse narratives to the forefront of the stage. Good afternoon, Emilio. And welcome to Behind the Curtain. It's a podcast about artists and the institutions that support them. I know that you are Emilio Rodriguez. You are the artistic director of the Black and Brown Theater, as well as the co founder, right?

Emilio:

Yes.

Rosanita:

And can you give just kind of a background about yourself and then also Came up with the idea of the theater.

Emilio:

Yes. So I studied theater in college and I originally came from California and I moved to Detroit about just over 10 years ago. And I really was excited about how we could get, how to get involved with the theater scene here. But something that I noticed in the theater scene when I first moved here that was a little bit different from California was that everything was really segregated. So there were some opportunities for theater artists of color, but it was all a segregated experience. And I wasn't noticing any overlap, particularly between Black and Latino artists, which is what I was used to in California. And so a group of other artists and me, we just came up with this idea and we were really just thinking about doing a showcase. And it was sort of the idea was, this is what we will show people of what is possible. And then other people will take it in their hands and do it. And we'll be able to, um, sit back and then after that showcase, it was really the audience who said from us, okay, when's the next show, when's the full length show, when's this project, can you come to our schools? And so it was never the intention that we were going to fully become a company. It was just an idea for a showcase. But because of the audience response, that's what sort of formed us into the company that we are now, because the company was saying, we want more of this. And the artists were saying, uh, we don't want to wait to see if other companies will follow this model. We just want to keep this model going.

Rosanita:

You said you were, you're originally from California and that it was really different there. Now I admit to doing, we'll just say research. An article. mentioned that when you were going on auditions, when you were first starting that you didn't know that if you didn't get a call that you didn't go in. Is that right? When that was happening, did you in that kind of who was getting cast more often than not or and and what kind of productions like if you were Latino, then were you typecast in Latino only roles?

Emilio:

Yeah. Wow. You did your research with that story. Yeah. So that's, that's a true story that happened to me, but actually what a lot of people don't know and what I was so afraid to talk about for a while was it was a Latino theater company. So sometimes people are like making the assumption, Oh, it's because of your ethnicity or your identity that you didn't get the part. But really, even within some spaces that advocate for racial justice, there were some, Still different inequities happening, colorism comes into play, featurism, do you look this part? And that was really the hardest thing for me living in California was that everything was so image based and everything was based on how you look because they are the TV city, right? So everything. Preparing people to be on television or this person could end up on television and then we'll have a famous alumni who came through our theater company. And so I felt like I didn't have the right look for L. A. that prevented me simply from seeing my headshot. People would make the decision. Oh, you don't need to come in to the audition. And I do love that here in Michigan, it's, it's been the opposite, right? People are willing to see anyone, but then the, the challenge then happens with, well, everyone has the opportunity to be seen, but for an audition, but then what actually happens in the work of the productions.

Rosanita:

Right, well, having lived in California myself, I'm not surprised that, you know, it was a Latino theater company and that the colorism and featurism existed. I know that that is kind of an issue within the community itself, but then also just, you know, featurism overall is very much an entertainment industry. And not just entertainment, but I'd say arts. Industry as a whole kind of an issue, because any sort of visual arts, you kind of see what's considered the right quote, unquote, right features to be presented. And then you were at U. C. Irvine and did you experience the same kind of issues at at U. C. Irvine if it was within the theater program? Itself, or is that something you feel comfortable in answering?

Emilio:

Yes, the, the thing about a lot of universities, especially post COVID, I think there's even more high turnover rates. So some of the people who were there were not the same people who are there now. So I can't comment on how it is now. But for me, when was I there and graduated? Over 10 years ago, and I do remember my first intro acting class, the, the teacher who was a MFA student. So they had some of the MFA students teach the intro acting classes and we had our 1 on 1 check in towards the end of the semester. And she said, you know, your look is. Very unique. And I think you should focus instead of going the traditional route of acting. I think you should embrace the quirkiness of your features and really look into like improv or somewhere else's stand up comedy and those kind of realms where your look might be more fit. And now people, you know, are addressing these stuff on social media and TikTok and I, I didn't have social media or any platform to address that when, when I was coming up and, and I didn't think I was weird looking until I took an acting class that they said, yeah, you're kind of weird looking. And, and so that's something that I. think of now when I'm doing casting to is not just opening it up based on someone's racial identity or color or featurisms as it pertains to a racial group, but also just the idea of. Who gets to decide what is attractive or unattractive and seeing a variety of people in roles. So sometimes, yes, we do have a, uh, woman who is very traditionally gorgeous playing the princess. And sometimes we also have a woman who someone else might say, oh, that's not the typical standard of beauty playing the princess because it communicates a message to the audience, which says the, the idea of what a princess is, is not. Based on their look, it's based on their personality. It's based on their kindness. And that's what we want the people watching the show to, to take away from it. And that's what we want the young people watching the show to emulate, right? It's not that I look like a princess. It's that I act like a princess. I exude kindness and I am looking out for other people and I am able to be selfless and put others priorities before my own.

Rosanita:

Kind of segwaying into kids. You also taught right through teach for America in Detroit. See, like I said, I don't call it Internet stocking the research. So, how did you go from? I want to act. I want to be in the theater to, you know, what? I really think I could make an impact on kids in kids lives and I want to be a part of that process in a public school setting.

Emilio:

Yes. For so long. I, I think I had not. really seen teaching as a first decision just because both of my parents were educators. So it kind of felt like, Oh, I can't do that. That's so obvious. That's so predictable. My mom was a preschool teacher. My dad was a high school teacher. So, uh, I had always thought I can't, I can't go that route, but then I had graduated from college and I was working with the YMCA. And I was teaching a, co teaching a kindergarten class that was after school because the kindergartners were released at like 12 30, something really early. So we basically just extended the day for them, for parents who were unable to pick their kids up at 12 30. And through that I was realizing how much teachers are really Artists they are, especially when they're working with the younger students, but I guess I would say that for all ages, teachers are truly artists and making this educational material, engaging and interesting and especially in this new generation where everything is 10 seconds. And I swipe. Five seconds and I swipe so they really have to be engaging and thinking outside the box. And that was really the moment where I thought, Oh, teaching doesn't have to be something that's separate from my artistry. It's actually benefits both areas. If I bring my artistry to my teaching and I bring my teaching to my artistry and that's when I applied and for teach for America actually applied as a kindergarten teacher because that's what I was doing. They put me in high school, but I, I, I had a great time with it because I believe everything happens for a reason. And the very first day of school, the drama teacher quit and they said, all right, Emilio, you have a drama degree. Can you do half English, half drama? And so that's what I did at Mumford for the two years that I was there. So it was, it all worked out that I, I still got to teach drama as well.

Rosanita:

I have a teach for America question back when I was in college, I was actually a special ed major and I applied for teach for America. I got in as a part of the application process. We were called in for interviews. And during the interviews, we had to. Perform a mini lesson, was that still a part of the application process when you did it? And if so, do you remember the lesson that you taught?

Emilio:

Yes, I did a lesson on, I don't remember exactly what I taught, but I know that I'd incorporated the book, Brown Bear, Brown Bear, What Do You See? Because I was very adamantly focused on kindergarten and I was teaching a kindergarten class. So that's why it was just so surprising when they put me in high school English, because I was like, my lesson was, maybe did they mix me up with someone else? But yeah, I do remember that I had used the book, Brown Bear, Brown Bear, What Do You See? And I had had like different animal books. Puppets that I made out of felts that I had all the other people hold in the, in the mini lessons. So yeah, needless to say, it was very surprising where I was placed, but everything happens for a reason.

Rosanita:

It does. So, you know, I had an early childhood, um, education background. I was a teaching assistant and I remember from that and then going through the, the education program, a lot of what we were taught for early childhood literacy and literacy in those younger years. Was just how, how beneficial it was to be able to act out the books that they were reading, not just for the decoding skills, but really a lot for the comprehension skills. And so, you know, that's why I was like, I wonder what lesson he did for TFA.

Emilio:

Yes, I think comprehension is something that I'm thinking about too, as particularly as we're looking for different funding sources and, and looking for ways to expand the organization and looking for ways to, to showcase to the donors, right? It's almost like you have to prove that arts are valuable in this new world we live in versus those of us who are already in the arts. We already know it's intrinsic value, but yeah, comprehension is something that I'm thinking a lot about. And actually my nephew reads really well and was reading pretty early, but Comprehension was always something that came back on the on the report card for him. So it was like, he can read this above grade level. But then when he's asked the comprehension questions of what did you read or what just happened? Or can you summarize this? That was an area of growth for him. Um, and it's something that I'm. Thinking about, um, the, the arts and, and how do the arts help, uh, with reading comprehension, even things like when my mom, I started reading pretty early because my mom would do voices. She would read to me. So all of the different characters would have their different specific voices. And I feel like that. helped me engage in reading, but it also helped me comprehend the story because I understood the characters and I understood the plot better because I understood how the plot was functioning with the characters and And the characters sort of helped me remember, Oh, there's a this character at this point, or there's a character who comes in at this point. So I, I do think that drama and theater, I, yeah, I'm, now I'm, I'm thinking more about how it helps with comprehension, as you said. And I, I think that's something that my mom unintentionally instilled on me through bringing voices when she would read to me.

Rosanita:

Yeah, but mine was the same. I had an older brother who, who did it. And then when, actually, when he was in elementary school, his third grade teacher had adapted the book Me Too, the Mercer of the Mire, like the little monster guy. Anyway, it was a book about, A younger sibling who was always following after the older sibling, you know, like me to me's to and she into a play for for the students as a part of the reading comprehension. And that was something that just also kind of stuck with me going through school, going through teacher prep program was. Just how engaged, you know, people were during during that time period. And that also leads me into you have that our voices program where you do a screenplay thing with students or is it solely storytelling? Can you explain a little bit more how that works?

Emilio:

Yes. So the our voices program, thank you for bringing that up. It's one of my favorite programs and something we, we test launched. And I, I love to use it also as a story to remind people that their ideas are brilliant, no matter who believes in you or not, because I actually pitched this to an organization that I was working for a nonprofit I was working for and they turned it down and then I had left the nonprofit and the same year. This nonprofit that I used to work for and black and brown theater applied for this big grant with the Ann Arbor community foundation. And we ended up getting the grant and, and the person from the nonprofit who writes their grants, who I'm still really good friends with. I consider her a great mentor. She, you know, jokingly said to me, Oh, you, you guys got the grant for buzz. And I was like, yeah. But I also did offer the program to you all. So I like to tell people that, like, you know, believe in your programs, execute them, follow them out. Not everyone will see the vision. But yeah, we had this idea of, what if we flip the, the, flip the idea of TYA theater? So much of TYA theater, theater for young audiences, is that, The, an adult directs and writes a script that kids perform, and it's a beautiful model. It's worked for so many years, but I also think there's opportunity to adjust and adapt to students who have different strengths because I experienced a lot of students who weren't. Very comfortable on stage and didn't necessarily have a desire to be on stage. And I think that's something that's okay, right? It doesn't have to be that every student has to be on stage or every year because in real life, not everyone is. Is a Beyonce or is a Rihanna, right? Some people have to go see the Beyonce concert or be behind the scenes of, you know, someone made Beyonce's clothing. Someone came up with a choreography for that amazing concert she did. And I think that's what we wanted to do was to help children see that theater has so many different parts to it. It's not just being on stage. And so the, what we flipped was we said, what if the students write the script? And they'll also direct the script, so they get to be writers and directors. And that was just the, the 1st part. That's how we sort of started the program. And then we brought in our adult actors from the company to come and perform the scripts that the students wrote as the process continued, we realize, oh, there are other elements of theater. There is there's sound design. There's lighting design. There's costume design. So there were some students who didn't want to write a script. And instead of saying. You're not trying hard enough or why aren't you doing this? We said, okay, you have a different strength in writing. Maybe you're an artist. You can do what an actual costume designer does, which is a rendering. This skill that you have, that you're doodling on your notebook right now is actually the skills that you need to write. to harness that a designer would use to come up with a costume rendering. So yes, you are going to have this time to draw, but it's drawing based off of the script. So you have to read the script and then you have to think about each character, what would they wear that would make sense in the script. And you have to look at the lines carefully because if it says that it's snowing and it's cold out, you can't put them in a t shirt. That wouldn't make sense with the right. And so then they learn like. Going back to that comprehension, right? When you give people a purpose to read, their comprehension improves, their reading analysis improves, because the students who, some teachers said, oh, this person's not the strongest reader. They were working on the reading with them. But when we gave them a focus of, okay, I see that you're doodling. I see that you're an artist. Take that, be the costume designer, come up with a costume rendering, but you have to read the script so that the costume you come up with makes sense to the story. And then they were able to remember details from the story. Oh, and explain it, right? Oh, I put them in a coat and gloves because this line on page three says, I'm freezing. So I wanted them to be covered in things to indicate that they're freezing. Or this line on page. Seven said they were shoveling snow outside, so they need to be looking like how we in Michigan dress, but it's snow when we're shoveling snow outside, right? It's layers and layers and layers. And, and that really is how the program sort of kept evolving. And then COVID happened. And we were like, Oh, we can't send people in the classroom. We can't even be in the classroom, but thankfully we, we leveraged zoom. And so we had the students work through zoom. And then one of our, our company members just said, you know, you've been doing some animation stuff for promo, which we were doing for, to promote, to promote, you know, the, the youth and family shows. And they said, why not? Do some animation stuff for the, our voices. And so we had this funding to do our voices, but it was COVID times. And so we said, all right, let's animate the stories that the students had. And that way we were able to have just one actor safely from their home, just pull out an iPhone and speak the lines into their iPhone and then send us that recording of that one minute play. And then we were able to send that to the animator and the animator was able to send back the animation that corresponded to the dialogue that the students wrote. And they were also able to take in inspiration if the students did like costume renderings or design renderings of what they wanted the animation to look like, what they wanted the characters to wear. The animator was then able to use that. And that was our younger group. So the artists were, you know, seven, eight years old. So still pretty young, but it was actually really cool to see what they drew and then how the professional illustrator was able to interpret that and make it this, this quality cartoon product that we realized, oh, that's actually an even better. Start introduction to young people into the world of the arts because they're already watching cartoons in their free time. Anyways, that's what they're watching on YouTube and they're and they're streaming platforms. And so then we're able to use that as a sort of a hook of, Oh, well, how do you think these artists are able to act effectively? A lot of them have theater training. That's why they have such great voices. And that's why they're able to, to utilize their voices in a way that. authentically portrays the characters because of that, that theater training. And so it unintentionally just, it keeps evolving. The program keeps evolving and I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes by 2025. Who knows? Because I never would have predicted animation being a part of it, but I think I'm looking forward to just seeing where it continues to grow.

Rosanita:

I have to say like, I love listening to all this, not just as the, a teacher, But just as a community member, listening to what's available to kids and your excitement about it and how, you know, you're like, okay, we still want to keep this program going. What can we do? How can we still, you know, engage with our students and then instead of just going, you know. We'll hold a writer's workshop online. You're like, somebody mentioned animation. I know we're going to go with that and we're going to just turn it into what you did.

Emilio:

Oh, yes. Thank you.

Rosanita:

Yeah, the question is, can we find the finished products online somewhere?

Emilio:

Yes, thank you for mentioning that. I keep forgetting to plug that, but they're all on YouTube. So they're all on our YouTube channel. If you type in Black and Brown Theater on YouTube, just make sure you spell theater. You will be able to see all of the animation from the stories that the students wrote. And you'll also be able to access some of our, not all, but some of our plays that were recorded during. COVID times, the ones that we had funding to record, and there's also, we did an adult Art Voices through the Ann Arbor Community Foundation, which was specifically working with Ypsilanti seniors. So we definitely work with all ages. That's why we like to really consider all ages. ourselves a family company because it's everyone is a part of the family, but the seniors got to write their own stories and direct their own stories. And those were filmed because that was during the peak of COVID, they were two person casts, but it was actually. Really exciting to see what you can do with just two people and how you can tell a story. And we also got to work with four different videographers for that project. So we could see all the different ways in which local artists would interpret that prompt of how do we. capture a play that someone wrote, a short play that someone wrote, but how do we blur the lines? Does it look more like a film? Does it look more like we're filming a play? Are we filming it on set? And everyone had a different interpretation of that prompt. Um, and they're all, uh, on the YouTube channel that people can watch and, and see which, which way they liked it, interpreted the best.

Rosanita:

Okay, so I know where to subscribe next going back to the kids for a minute with doing the our voices program and working specifically with the kids and, you know, kind of where they come in and where they go. When they graduate from the program, what kind of growth do you see? Not just in terms of like, their comprehension, but did it like, you know, I guess, social, emotional growth. And do you measure do you formally measure that? of, uh, wow, like we've s Yes,

Emilio:

I would love to sit who had a little bit more to measure it. That's som looking for because we do drafts, which gives us a Objective way to measure growth and also the growth of their products. Like first design to last design is something that we use, but then there's also different things like confidence that we're still looking for a way of how do we, formally quantify that or do qualitative research that demonstrates that bit. That's one thing that we see a lot of too, and it depends how long the program goes because sometimes the program can be as short. We do sometimes 90 minute workshops, but then we also have six week workshops, and we also have eight week workshops, and we also have Full semester, depending on how much funding we have and how long the school is enabling us to work with the students. Like when we did it with Mumford, we had a full semester with them and we basically came in right after the juniors had a S. A. T. prep class, I think, and they took their S. A. T. and like April, but the class was until June. So. They were like, you have the rest of the school year to, to try this out. But yeah, so definitely we see more growth, the longer it goes. But like you mentioned, we are able to see on the page, that growth in writing for the students who go the writing route on the page, we're able to see the design growth and the ways in which they're able to closer retext. Cause in the beginning you see a design. It's just like, oh, this looks cool. I want to draw Sonic the Hedgehog. But then in the end you see, oh, okay. Based off of what's in the story, what's in the text, this is the character that I actually have to design. It has to look different than Sonic, because the story is not about Sonic, so I can't just draw Sonic. But then, yeah, the other one I would want to figure out a better way to measure would be the confidence, because seeing the students In the beginning, who are very shy and very few words. And then in the end, we see them able to fully defend their story, defend their character choices, defend their design choices, be able to say why they didn't earn, did, did or did not include something based off of the text. And, and that's the growth that I think is, is really exciting. And also the collaborative element too. I think group projects are sometimes a thing that is very hit or miss. I remember when I was doing group projects as a student, sometimes it would feel like I'm doing all the work. But with theater, we get to learn about how it's so important that everyone has their own part. And when everyone does their part, Then no one's doing all the work, but we're all collaboratively working together to make the best show possible, which I think is just innately a part of theater that I wish there was a better qualitative or quantitative way to measure it so that people could see how transformational just theater in general is in the collaborative, social, emotional setting, but particularly with this project with each student being in the role that best fits them. So, yes, you love to sketch in your notebook. That means you are a perfect, yeah. Costume designer. You can do a great rendering. And yes, you're great with words. So maybe you're a writer and maybe you're confident in speaking. You can be included on stage with the adult actors and you are someone who really looks at different color schemes, but you don't draw as well, but you love to. thinking about the ways that colors go together. Maybe you're our lighting designer. Oh, you're someone who loves listening to music and you're always able to think about sound. You are our sound designer. You can pick all the songs that go in between every show that we're going to present. So that way it flows naturally. It has one cohesive tone, but it also makes sense with not only the show that's before, but the show that's after. So you have to pick a song that would make sense in both of those stories to transition us. So I always think of like the classic Jack Black scene from School of Rock where he's like, Oh, you can play the cello. The bass is kind of like a cello, cello, you know, and he's assigning all the parts to all the kids. That's, that's how we feel about our voices and like in the perfect world, it's like taking the strengths that the kids already have. But, um, Exemplifying them and then realizing that when each kid has their strength and they're able to, to sharpen that, it actually helps their reading skills because ultimately it all comes down to a play that we are working on. So those reading and writing skills are also benefiting because it gives a purpose to reading. It's not just read because we told you to, it's read because you're going to, when you read this, you're going to be able to showcase your own skills in a way that In doing something that you enjoy, you love listening to music, so you have to read these plays so that you can show to everyone else why you are so great at picking music and music that will take us through all of these stories.

Rosanita:

When I hear that, I'm kind of just listening to your grant application right now. Narrative, right? Which takes me to another point, which is Are there grants for art organizations to do that? Or do you have to go into the education realm? Like, how would you go about trying to find a grant for something like that?

Emilio:

Yes, we have been so fortunate to work a lot with the Ann Arbor area community foundation. They have been 1 of our biggest supporters, particularly for that program. They funded the senior program. They funded the program with the. The students in Ypsi, so they were a huge resource and the first ones to give us a substantial amount of money to enable us to do the program and, and really believe in us and invest in us.

Rosanita:

But outside of them,

Emilio:

Yeah, most of it has been through community foundations or through arts foundations. Sometimes a school or a university is able to promote it. A university is able to pay for it for a high school or for a elementary school that they're working with. Yeah. Most of our funding has been through arts organizations and I would love to investigate and see how do we get funding through the education sector? How do we get funding through University of Michigan or Eastern to bring us to the schools or Wayne State to bring us to Detroit schools because I think there is so much money, especially in higher education. And they're also very interested in the K through 12 programming that creates the next generation of, of critical thinkers. But yeah, for us, it's just sometimes hard to even Get that 1st meeting where we talk about what that program looks like and how it's mutually beneficial.

Rosanita:

Really? Even though you've been doing this, that's the 7th year.

Emilio:

Yes. We're going into the 7th year in October.

Rosanita:

Yeah. So I guess around the 5 to 7 year mark, you're established. Nonprofit, right? Like, you're no longer just an emerging 1 and, you know, I guess in my naivety, David, hey, it's that I would think it'd be easier now to get an appointment than when you 1st started. But I'm just an outsider, so I have no idea.

Emilio:

I think it varies because, yeah, the arts organizations and the community foundations that wouldn't even have responded to a letter of inquiry to us in year two, now we can set up meetings and we can get funding. But sometimes the Education realm, because we don't directly interact with a lot of the decision makers in the education realm. They are not familiar with us organization. Even when we do the programming in the schools, oftentimes we're directly connecting with principals or even teachers, sometimes our direct connection. And so the decision makers who decide who to give funding to sometimes. Have no interaction with us and no, no knowledge of even the programming that we did in their schools, which is unfortunate and something that I would love to see change. But I think slowly, but surely, we are developing more and more relationships with the decision makers of the schools and that's what's going to allow us to work with more schools in the future.

Rosanita:

Do you think that's just kind of more of just the natural progression where when you're first getting started? And you're typically are talking with somebody who's who you're directly going to work with. And then as time goes on, it's okay. Now, you're no longer stuck talking with the teacher. Then it's the principal then it's, you know, 1 at office is that just kind of. a natural progression?

Emilio:

I think so, because I think in the beginning, so many people are scared to take that risk, because what if this program goes wrong? How does that make the school look? What if a child doesn't have a good time with this program? What if multiple children have a negative experience with this program? what we're And, and so I understand the, the risk element for a school, if it's working with a organization that, you know, nothing about, you have no references who can speak to what the organization will look like or what their work will look like. So, yeah, I completely understand the hesitation and the fear of, of jumping into a new program. But yeah, I think what you said, there's like a natural progression as you start working with more schools that. Those other schools become your reference. And that's actually what happened to one of the schools we work with or the programs we work with, with bright futures and Ypsilanti first, it was like one or two sites that we, we'd reached out to all of their sites. Who wants to work with us? We have a grant. We'll come to any one of you. And then only one or two sites took us up on that. And then the next year we were like, well, we don't have funding. And they were like, But we do, we can contract you guys to come as artists. And then it sort of built from there. And I think by the end of the past two years, we've been at, I want to say nine or 10 of their sites now when it started off with two. So, Yes, it takes a while, but it's kind of nice that it happens organically because we, we really build that trust and that excitement instead of us having to tell the sites. This is what we can do for you. They're reaching out to us now and saying, we heard great things from this site and this site. So we want you to come to our site now.

Rosanita:

I want to switch gears a little bit because we spent the majority of the time talking about the school program because, you know, it's fantastic and necessary and make such an impact and truly that in the programming for kids is how I had 1st heard about the black and brown. Theater, you guys had done a production at, I think, the Michigan theater and a friend of mine had taken her daughter and her little girl just fell in love and, you know, went backstage and got to meet the actors and actresses and it's magical for a little kid. Right? And so that's how I, I first met her. Heard about you guys, and it seems like that's kind of more of the productions that you guys do here in Ann Arbor, but back to that Internet sleuthing you. I know that you, you put on and you sponsor and promote other. More adult topics as well, right?

Emilio:

Yes. So we have a variety. We are definitely leaning towards more family friendly programming. It doesn't always have to be specifically focused on, on kids, but definitely we do like the idea of a program that does feel family friendly, but family friendly can also be challenging. That's some of my most memorable programming going up was seeing programming that was geared towards families, but it was able to challenge. The way in which you think or to take on harder subjects in engaging ways. I remember the, the Disney channel movie color friendship, which was so beautifully done and talking about prejudices and, and stereotypes and different expectations. And the belief that two people who have different experiences can't come together. And, and that movie shows you so beautifully that they can, but you have to actively work to overcome your biases. And I think what's exciting now is that we're able to delve more into that work that is challenging, but still purposeful and still a part of shaping the next generation and also helping families have those conversations. So our last show we did Edmund Allen Jones was our playwright, and Asia Mark who works with Mosaic was our director. And they created a wonder and camera Graham, who was a EMU recently and you graduate all collaborated together on a, a play about MLK. That was our assignment. But our assignment from the library was a library had funded. It was. Give us something beyond I have a dream. Everyone knows that everyone's familiar with that. How can you go deeper? And I kudos to Edmund for the taking on that challenge of writing the play in a very short amount of time and Asian and Cameron for bringing it to life, but that. Play was, you know, took on some ideas that some people might not feel are right for families or children, like talking about being arrested and serving time in jail. But that brings up the, the systemic issues, right? And the systemic problems that, you know, We lived in a world where speaking against injustices was a crime. And so now we have the freedom to to speak up against injustices. And it's something that we shouldn't take for granted because 50 years ago, people were in prison just for speaking up and saying, this is not right. And, and I think that, um, Having that mix of content is really interesting, too, because it allows families to make the decision for themselves of what what one of our experiences are right for your child. If you have a 5 year old, I would say the MLK show might not be the best place to start, but the princess show might be a really great. touch point for them. And then as your kids progress, or if you have kids at different age ranges, maybe your 12 year old would be a great person to take to the MLK show and learn a little bit more about history in an exciting and engaging way that enables them to have conversations with your family after the show. Oh, wow. I didn't realize it was like that. I didn't realize that this was something that we learned about in history as if it was, you know, like, History was ages ago and it's like, Oh no, they were alive when grandma was alive. So having those, those takeaways and that variety of programming is, is what's important to us. And I think, you know, people always say variety is the spice of life. And I think variety is what makes a company that focuses on BIPOC artists so valuable so that we're not. ever pigeonholed into BIPOC artists can only do one thing. BIPOC artists can only do history plays or BIPOC artists can only do plays about social justice. It's BIPOC artists can do everything. We can have plays that are historical, we can have plays that are on social issues, and we can have plays that are just a princess living her best princess life. All of the above because we all like all of those things as BIPOC human beings. We want to see ourselves represented in all of those spaces. We want to have conversations with people about all of those things. And we enjoy all of those things because we are fully three dimensional human beings who deal with inequities and social injustices, but also love to have fun and hang out with our family and friends and just be carefree sometimes.

Rosanita:

You mentioned it was a collaborative effort between people from different, you know, like, you have the, the young woman from Eastern, someone from mosaic. Did they come to you with the, the idea? Or was it like a call for submissions? How does that work?

Emilio:

Yes, so, uh, librarian had just reached out to, to black and brown theater and we said, okay, with this prompt and then we sat down and we said, okay. Okay. Who from our networks, um, because we had such a short amount of time, we knew that we weren't going to be able to do a call for submissions as we would like to do if we had like maybe a year warning, but we had like three months. So if we put out a call for submission and give people a month to respond, then we have two months to make the project come together. So with those three months, we said we have to. Make the offers today so that people have three months to work on this project. And we just started looking through our contacts. Who have we worked with before? Who have we worked with on smaller projects that we would like to try a bigger project with? So Edmund had worked with us as an actor and he had kept expressing to us that he was a writer and he had sent us some scripts that we weren't able to align with what we were doing at that time, but we saw his potential as a writer. And so we thought this is a perfect way for him to try on a new challenge and also showcase his writing skills and then Cameron, he had just done a show with us as an actor, or I directed him in a show that I was doing at matrix theater company separate from black and brown. But he was such an incredible actor and was so great at getting off book and learning his lines in such a quick timeframe. And he actually learned his scene partners lines as well, too. So he was like in Dolly Parton mode where he's memorizing the whole script. And so we were like, okay, he is the perfect actor for this process. And then. When we were looking at directors, we were thinking, Oh, we right now have a male playwright and a male actor who's going to do a one man show. This is really something we can start thinking about. How do we incorporate women's voices in this project? And if it's not going to be through the writing and through the acting, it still needs to be in a leadership position. And then we started thinking about the director. Who are the directors we want? And we had worked with Asia on a five minute play that she had directed through a collaboration with Mosaic. And we said, all right, she's our perfect person for this with her experiences to work in a short time frame and really help actors bring out Um, different characters and utilize different parts of their voices, which was so important for a one person script because Cameron was gonna have to play multiple characters. So Asia was the perfect person to help him really utilize all of his voice and all of his body to become those different characters.

Rosanita:

For those who don't know, what's Mosaic?

Emilio:

Oh, yes. So Mosaic is a wonderful theater company, a youth theater company, and it focuses specifically on training middle and high school age students in both acting and singing. So they have a singing program, which is like a choir that the students work on, on their singing abilities, singing harmony, learning different songs, musical theater songs, classic songs. All the repertory and then their theater program is for the actors. And so they, they take on a variety of projects as well. And they do different scripts and different plays that help them develop their skills as actors. And they also have a tech program as well. So their young people learn how to do lighting design and stage management and all of the elements needed for theater.

Rosanita:

And is this based in the Metro Detroit area?

Emilio:

Yes. Mosaic Youth Theater of Detroit. They are actually based in a Detroit school, University Prep. And they basically have the after school hours to work with the students.

Rosanita:

This seems like a great spot to, stop part. One of our interview with Emilio Rodriguez. We'll have to continue this next week. Thank you for joining us for part one of my interview with Emilio Rodriguez. In part two, we'll explore how the Black and Brown Theater secures its funding and delve into the challenges and successes they've experienced. Make sure to tune in for the continuation of this insightful conversation. Thanks for listening and see you next time on Behind the Curtain.

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Rosanita Ratcliff

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